Do you have connections with satan or something?
Date:
Sat, 08 Feb 1997 00:52:49 -0600
From:
viper
I looked over your webpage and am not to happy with the things you stated.
I probably dont match you in intellect considering that I am only 15, but I do happen to know somewhat a lot about the Bible.(by the way, IM A CHRISTIAN.)
Go ahead and mock my e-mail like you did to everyone elses that you posted on your page, I DONT CARE. It just shows that you are not much of person.
What gives you the right to say that a the bible is wrong just because it was written by man. (i've read living and King James) I know that humans make a lot of mistakes, lord knows I have, but how do you know if it is right or not. Are you super human, do you talk directly to God,(does Evis talk to you in your sleep) how do you know what is right or wrong.
By the things on your web page, I am guessing that you are slightly intelligent. (well, you cant be to smart since you dont beleive in Cristianity.) It is a shame that a gift like intellect given from god would be used against him. This world is screwed up enough without your help.
Have a nice day, and remember,
GOD LOVES YOU. (even if you'll roast your ass off in HELL)
Subject:
Your page
Date:
Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:02:14 -0800
From:
"Lewis Hyatt"
I stumbled across your page while researching McCarthy, but was intrigued enough to read through most of it. I am glad to find someone who shares my views; I also find it impossible to resolve the hypocrisies of the Catholic church. I wanted to comment on the email you've posted from the 15-year-old boy. I was disgusted by his remark that "well, you cant be to smart since you dont beleive in Cristianity." By the age of 15, I would think he would have learned the value of tolerance. The sad thing about this statement is that he probably learned such an absurd ideology from his parents. This is the main problem with Christianity; it teaches that it is superior to all other religions. This incomprehenisble notion that the followers of Jesus are somehow above all other men, that they are inherently *better*, led to such disasters as the Inquisition and the Crusades. This alone draws me away from Christianity; were I not an atheist, I would still keep as far away as possible from it.This 15-year-old boy already has it set in his mind that he is superior to all non-Christians. The irony of this statement is that he is the one who is less intelligent than you; he is the one who is ignorant. I'm only 16, but I think I understand life far better than this Bible banger.
-Lewis
"If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the precipitate"
Date:
Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:23:18 -0500 (EST) From:
Wilmayer1@aol.com
Are you an anti-Christ? You are taking the verses in the wrong context. You are misinterpreting them. Jesus was trying to get His point across to people by calling them fools. He still loves them. He never meant it as hate-filled. The other things were written at different times by different people. People do make mistakes. The Bible was written by people, whom do tend to think only what they want to think, umm...you. Anyways. Maybe they weren't exactly correct in their book. What difference does it make if Jesus was crucified at 6 or at 3? HE WAS CRUCIFIED FOR US! It doesn't matter at what time, it happened. He died just for us. Please reconsider your thoughts.
Love in Jesus,
Child of God
yadda yadda yadda
Subject:
Web site
Date:
Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:11:16 -0500 From:
Stephen
I absolutely love it! This is by far one of the most intelligent web sites dealing with the bull shit hypocracy in Xtianity. Well done!
Ryan (un106624@wvnvms.wvnet.edu)
Subject:
That's why they have scholars! Date:
Mon, 17 Mar 1997 02:45:11 -0500 From:
"Roque's Mailbag"
Good evening,
It's funny that your email address is @pagan! Don't you know that Paganism is a religion which is connected to Satanism? Is't Satan mentioned in the Bible? I noticed your page of "Bible Contradictions" and I think it was just a waste of your time! Before posting up those contradictions, I hope you read the Bible enough with studying guides because your so-called "contradictions" are merely parts of the whole sense of the message! Instead of reading one verse, read the whole chapter. If you get into it, read the whole book. I believe there are 66 books in the Bible but don't worry, they're short. I'm not irate about your site. I think I should leave that to God to worry about. I'm more concern of your hate to a religion that preaches about love. Don't try to blame Christianity with a religion that gone bad. I've done extensive research on the "Roman Catholic church". You'll be surprised about their connections with politics and wars! Check out this site -"chick.com"- and browse through it thoroughly as you would like for people to browse your site. Just think of it as a research on the religion your mocking on! I'll pray for you that you would eventually check out this site!
The Bible is our genuine guide in everyday life. I know you mentioned about the Bible being written by man. Remember that these men were men serving God through the works of the Holy Spirit! Sure you may say that how come this doesn't happen in modern times? Well, back then, people were more in-tuned with God and that people lived a simple life. Nowadays, people are clouded by things today that have nothing to do with Jesus. No doubt that sin is sin but when you compare today's society to Jesus' times, there is a big difference. Sorry for rambling to much but I just wanted to make a point out that I believe people need to hear. We all need to open our eyes and start making out who is the deceiver/counterfeiter and who is the Allmighty Savior, Jesus Christ.
Thanks for you time and I will surely pray for you!
And that's why they have delete keys!
These are the people that litter up the streets with their
illiterate, superstition ridden 'Gospel Bombs': Tracts- those
little comic books that pretend to convey 'spirituality,'
while actually just trying to spread the christian virus.
Subject: Comments
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:06:11 -0800
From: "Mr. Tracy Riddle"
Hello,
Just wanted to say I enjoyed your site and agree entirely. Politically, I am a liberal/libertarian and totally support the right of people to believe in whatever nonsense they choose to believe in - as long as they leave me and others alone. That is what America is all about and what our Founding Fathers intended. Barry Goldwater, a true conservative, once said, "Every good Christian should kick Rev. Falwell right in the tail!"
TLR from California
Subject: Where are we going to....
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:47:00 -0800
From: Tim Mac
Hey, liked your page. I am a christian. Small "c". I am not born again or anything else. Just a God loving man. I see and agree with all of your observations. However, for me, I do not question the bible. I belive that inside I truely know that which is right, wrong, or those things, which are many, that I do not understand. I to get very tired of the right or any one else espousing those things that are not even one of the ten commandments or seven deadly sins.
P.S. I believe that every thing in the bible is what the lord wanted to be there. I do however, recognise that man had his hands on it. ... it is all there by the hand of God but, to what end. I believe that to look to hard is to stumble over all that is there to falter over.
Thanxs macattak@deepwell.com
Subject: great page!!
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:38:03 -0800
From: Chris Johnston
Organization: djo.com
Hey,
I just wanted to congratulate you on the nice job you did at creating this page and all the other pages you made but the bible contradictions one was the best. I used to be Christian but after 14 years of it I was thinking "what good is it to be yelled at at church and hearing that I have sinned upon this day?" So I said fuck it and gave it up. I am now an atheist because I too have found holes in the bible. I have found it doesn't say one thing about the dinosaurs in the bible even though we have found *a lot* of evidence that they once roamed this earth. Also if this so called "god" is such a loving "spirit" then why would he be against so many things like gay people. Plus you are supposed to be friends with god and only god... and if you are friends with the planet you must be Satanic. What a bunch of shit! Anyways I don't want to make this too long... I just wanted to say thanks for letting the truth of the bible be known to everybody. But still there are a lot of people who choose to ignore it... when will they ever learn?!? thanks for reading my letter...
keep up the good work. -*chris*- neurosis@djo.com
Thanks for making the point about loving the planet; it's so true. The Christian attititude is that "Nature is something we were put here to rise above-" And that it is "God's Will" that we ravage the planet. How convenient. Another justification used by Christian anti-environmentists is summed up in James Watt's 1982 statement: "I do not know how many future generations we can count on before the Lord returns." (quoted from Sierra Club Magazine, Jan/Feb 1982, pp 16-129).
Subject: Thank You
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:30:00 -0500
From: "Lumpkin/Seidensticker"
I have to say
thank you sooo fucking much
I am an anti-christ, anti-catholic, anti-god stuck in a catholic school (i'm 14) I have alwyas thought (well, since i was 7 or 8) that the bible is shit, and so is that god is almighty. Thank your for this written proof, too bad i'd get kicked out if i showed my religion teacher, but it helps inside for the rest of my last year in a catholic school
Lesley S. (kali)
Amour
Peace Love & FlowerPower
May love prevail!
Subject: RE: Your Website
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:14:20 -0800
From: Joseph Martinez
Hello Randi:
I found your website quite interesting as well as very factual to some extent. Here's some info of my own, that you may want to include in your site or post in your email section. Caesar Borgia is Jesus Christ. No, not really but read further. As you already know he was second son of Pope Alexander VI. Pope Alexander VI ordered the artists of the Renaissance to re-create/create icons of God, Jesus, the Angels, and the Israelites. Caesar Borgia became the model for Jesus Christ. Maria Enriquez, the widow of Juan Duke of Candia, commissioned an altarpiece. This altarpiece was in fact a cross with Caesar Borgia on it; the crucifix. This can all be documented in a book called "The Borgias" by Marion Johnson. On page 220 it says that the name Borgias will always be associated with sin rather than saintliness. Why? Because Caesar Borgia was a notorious criminal, murderer, child molester, and prominent homosexual. The entire Christian population is confounded by his graven image. The false image they call Christ. So then, what is the true image of Jesus Christ? Read the book of Revelations 1:14-15 "His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." What is the color of brass? Brown. Brass is a derivative of brown. Now if you take brass and burn it in a furnace; what color would it become? If you burn anything in a furnace, what color would it become. Hmmm... Oh, should I mention that Jesus Christ was a Jew. Feel free to write back anytime. Keep it up.
PJAY
hmmmmmm......
Subject: Thumbs Up!
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:10:07 -0500
From: "Kenneth J. Silver"
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Service
thanks for your informative website and some very frightening links. as a born atheist, i've always struggled with the fact that people would choose myth, lies, and socio/political metaphors to cling to (most of which really has nothing to do them or their history or actions). as Sartre chided: "OK--god exists. How does that change your condition?" you might be suprised to know that even in "pagan" New York City, 97% of the population believes in a supreme being. so cosmopolitans and rednecks are rather similar.
keep up the good work!
KEN SILVER
N.J.
Subject:
Thoughts about your pages
Date:
Tue, 08 Apr 1997 16:51:20 -0500
From:
Rob Darwin
Hello!
I read through your pages on religious atrocities with...this is a
cliche, but with a heavy heart. Heavy because I know that the atrocities
were real, and because some have tried to defend them. I certainly
cannot- they horrify me, as they would anyone with a shred of
compassion.
My greatest concern, though, is with your perception of the person of
Christ...
... (I don't
believe the Bible to be a book of science, so I have no problem with the
scientific account of creation. See my surname as a reference- yes, I'm
directly related.) This being (gender-based pronouns are meaningless in
reference to a spiritual being) took human form for a time
revelations. While in the person of Jesus, the being taught us its
primary desire- for us to care for it and for each other. It also
demonstrated the consequences of actions contrary to that desire and its
power to redeem us from those consequences by sentencing itself, the
creator, to death for the actions of its creation, then returning to
life. Though the period of incarnation ended, it promised us its
continued inner presence in our lives in return for acknowledgement of
its authority and the necessity of the sacrifice it made for us.
Rob Darwin
Thanks for your letter.
To put it another way:
There is a light that shines beyond
all things on Earth, beyond us all, beyond the heavens,
beyond the highest, the very highest heavens. This is the
light that shines in our heart. Chandogya Upanishad
3.13.7
(The 'Upanishads' are sacred Hindu texts composed in Sanskrit between
800 and 400 B.C.)
...
The belief in the resurrection as a literal event is essential to the
Christian theology. Resurrection is not a uniquely Christian notion,
and many Indian holy beings, or 'avatars,' are purported to have
come back from the 'dead.' Typically, Christians insist that they have
a monopoly on the concept.
Whether or not Christ actually rose from the dead,
for us, today, a deeper and more spiritually fulfilling reading of the
metaphor is available.
We see that resurrection is an interior event; a personal
'breakdown,' followed (hopefully) by a 'transcendence.'
Spirit, forced (or permitted) to assume the mantle of matter, is
broken on the cross of matter; being forced through
the pains and joys of life on earth.
The omniprescence of the cosmic 'bath;' the light that permeates
the universe: this is what Jesus meant when he said: "and Lo, I am with you alway(s),
even unto the end of the world." (Matthew: 28.20)
Subject:
good stuff
Date:
Tue, 08 Apr 1997 14:12:20 -0700
From:
Dave Kunath
I was sent an e-mail from a friend telling me to check out your page. I did right away and I love it. There needs to be more information made available showing the invalididty of the bible. It's also good to know that there are others out there that can see the nonsense of the bible-pushers. Keep up the good work.
Dave Kunath
Elmira, NY THAT's the Spirit!
...
Subject:
interested in more of this kind of pages
Date:
Tue, 08 Apr 1997 01:32:25 -0400
From:
bogdan roy
i have a friend who believes in god and the bible...i dont have anything against it...more power to him i say....once i told him how hypocritical the bible is and most christians that i've met....he got really pissed off....i tried to carry on a logical conversation about my experiences with religious people, but he wouldn't hear of it....in a way he proved my point even more....now at least i can show him about some of the inaccuracies in the bible....thanks for having this page on....i'd love to hear about other pages like these....
Try this:Freethinker Links ...
Subject:
Bravo!
Date:
Tue, 01 Apr 1997 22:25:26 -0500
From:
Zardoz
A site every believer should vist. Good job.
I added your page to my links page.
Regards,
Jim (Zardoz)
Freethinkers
Subject:
can being cruicified be all that bad??
Date:
Tue, 08 Apr 1997 01:27:33 -0600
From:
shaitan
I have read a lot of Randl's site and responses to it, about all I can say to all the christians is; does it mean anything to be crucified when millions died in the same way? What's so special about it? That it was god's son? big deal, if the god of the bible really existed, then
It doesn't matter to me that man made christianity into the demon that it is, only that the supposed god let it continue..may i burn in hell rather than accept a choice like "whosoever believe shall have everlasting life" How is this free choice? It's a choice between sliding down a hundred foot razorblade or living in harmony for all eternity..what an extremely uninformed, unintelligent, extremely limited, uncaring god to tease us with curiosity, vast minds, and insatiable desires..god sounds more like man's view of himself..
anyway..I don't really care about any of this, I just cant see how the word "christian" and the word "intelligent" can be in the same sentence. I don't bash the early christians, but the followers of the roman christ, and their modern counterparts, whom embody absolutley none of the original values..as if we could even know what a 1st century mind state actually was..
anx anx an mitka....shaitan@matrix-m.com
I like the part about the 100 foot razorblade...wow!
Date:
Fri, 9 May 1997 11:45:19 -0300 From:
Robert W MacLaughlin
Hi there, whoever you are. Read the email your page generates, oh! I'm a Christian believer,but rather than rant or carry on pro or con as some of your respondents do, I just wanted to say "hi", hope you're having a "good" day. Any time you want to "talk", send me an email. I believe there is a God who loves everybody and would like to see everybody believe in his son, Jesus. So instead of pushing the bible, I like to go through life like the good Samaritan, helping where I can, accepting people at face value, treating them as I would want to be treated. There you go, not a single rant, no negativity, just a friendly "hi, how you doing?" Just like Jesus would do.
Bob
Okely Dokely Neighborino!
Subject:
God and Fate
Date:
Wed, 04 Jun 1997 22:32:02 -0600
From:
Stetson
I had a question concerning the nature of god and fate that I am hoping you can answer. The question is actually a sort of paradox between two exactly defined unquestionable (completely closed to any sort of interpretation) ideals found throughout the entire bible. The first being that man has his own free will and the second being that god is allknowing and able to see all things that will come to pass. So how can man have his own free will to choose what he is going to do if god already knows what he is going to do no matter what, thus setting his fate in stone. A sort of idea where one gets to choose his predestiny
That's too hard for me. Ask Chick ...
Subject:
your fine site
Date:
Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:13:13 -0500
From:
"Baba Booey (Fafa Fooey Sasa Smelly)"
Florida State University Student Government Associastion
well lets get this out of the way: i loved your site, I am a non demonationalist christian. okay anyway i think all of your information of torture and such was fascinating. even more wacked was that it was a trippy experience reading about medieval torture and listening to tool's Ænima cd :) anyway I read A world Lit in 11th grade euro. history class. it was a great book we wrote a paper on. I think that the medieval times were nothing to be celebrated in a cheap sideshow dinner theatre, but something to be horrified of. Indeed I think that Christianity is not based on logic, and I think that the interpretation of God as an infinite thing is impossible. we can only guess at it from what the bible says. it is a stupid world though, because of people like the WBC church and the ralph reed jerk club who attack all parts of the community. (if you odnt know who the WBC church is go to www.godhatesfags.com that will get you a million laffs.) i still believe God is all forgiving and loving, hence Jesus as a our savior. Of ocurse, if you dont go the savior path. well you know what hyper text link goes next. Still, I can appreciate those who do not follow my religion. I dont harbour ill will its not my business what you believe. Well to wrap-up it was a great site and looks more like a fine history paper than entertainment.
chris delaughter (what is more evil and pagan than student government? and its something I'm in!!)
Uhhhh- Cool!... Oh- The godhatesfags (Reverend Fred Phelps' Website) is HERE. "Minister of Hate" gives the lowdown on the malevolent preacher.
Subject:
JC
Date:
Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:30:29 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Ardy2@aol.com
Sock it to them!
Subject:
Fundamentalism
Date:
Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:36:02 -0600
From:
Steve Maine
Before I say much of anything, let me say that I am a Christian.
You pages on fundamentalism really caught my attention. Thank you for pointing out perhaps the biggest problem with people (both Christians and non-Christians) in general -- lack of rational, critical thought.
Fundamentalism is a dangerous disease. It infects those who do consider the consequences and ramifications of their actions. Humanity is cursed by a tragic lack of foresight. Perhaps fundamentalist merely illustrate this flaw on a day-by-day basis by exuding an air of intolerance and lack of forgiveness?
When dealing with an adulterous woman facing an angry crowd who wished to stone her, Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." It is an axiom that Christians today need to remember.
I apologize for the somewhat rambling nature of this letter; I'll consolidate my thoughts and get to the point. Please do not judge all Christians upon the actions of the Fundamentalist segment. There are some of us who see our religion as a relationship between ourselves and God, not as something to trumpet to the masses or club "sinners" over the head with. I, for one, respect the individual rights of people. I believe that God has instilled free will in us for a reason, and that we, as Christians, should stop telling people how to live their lives. I see that as God's job.
Thank you for your page. Good luck and God bless.
Steve Maine
Steve-
Thanks for your letter; and I agree with you. It creates the opportunity to share some new ideas from George Santayana.
Subject:
christianity
Date:
Thu, 07 Aug 1997 16:15:13 -0400
From:
Ken Smith
Organization:
Mathematica Policy Research, Inc.
Now, now. Why do you feel the need to point out the obvious. You know
how much some people are about their religion.
Religion represents a world view. Because adherants are true believers;
NOTHING is contradictory. Faced with reason they will: (1) twist their
beliefs to the make the contradictions consistent, (2) deny that the
verses you are quoting are actually saying what they say, or (3) burn
you are the stake for heresy. Since we no longer allow Christian mobs
to control our lives, Christians will certainly try to do whatever else
they can (maybe like bomb a woman's clinic?).
They've done lots of #1 and #2, fortunately not #3 (lately.) The other reason for compiling this information into one place is to make it easy to get to, and to share with others, so they can share with even more people.
Of course, dogmatism and violence are not limited to Christian believers. All religions have their fascists elements. Certainly, a religion or philosophy based on reverence for Mother Earth can be just as fascists. If Mother earth can destroy dinosaurs, why not destroy humans, who are starting to bother Her. Indeed, why shouldn't those who represent the Mother do the job for Her? It would be a great act of faith in the name of the Great Mother.
Here's STP's comment on Mother Earth.
Alas, you see this fascist element even today among femenists, who believe that we are all children of the Mother and must tread lightly on Her. Of course, the rub is that those who stomp too hard--or are considered to stomp too hard--are eventually stomped upon.
So, in a nutshell, I have to say that I am not particularly impressed by your critique of Christianity or the alternative belief system underlying your critique.
Maybe you'd rather have something nice to look at? As for an underlying belief system... is there one?
Matt wrote:
I can't believe the extraorninary inhuman act's performed by the hypocritical christian norm. Yet they preach completely different value's. I have been to church in search of truth, and found only money seeking insincere people.I was very turned off and disappointed. While i do believe in a god, i just can't believe in the god that man has created. There must be someone who has the right belief system that is correct. I don't believe the christian extreme right has the answer's to my questions. Who or what is God, and why are we here? Why has God allowed all this criminal behavior exist for so long? Why is witch craft and magic so evil and wrong? I need someone unbiased to answer this. you can email me if you wish forever curious, matt
Dear Matt:
The problem is that there are no simple answers. Belief systems that promise simple answers are doomed to fail in fulfilling their promises. The question "Who or what is God?" really answers itself. God is a WORD. Words can never describe the infinite; "It" cannot be put into words. To try to do so causes the error of thinking that "it" is like us- that it 'causes' or 'allows' 'good' or 'evil' things to happen. The 'It' that can be put into words is not really 'IT'.
We are all confronted with mystery, and we all are alone with it. It is a terrifying truth, but it is also a liberating truth.
It pays to explore the different solutions that people have come up with, to sample the different religions, if only to learn some alternate points of view- but ultimately, our best hope is to ride the mystery with grace. After time, we begin to see patterns, and though we can't ever see the whole picture, we can begin to see our place in it and to be grateful. Religions can provide a framework for relating with the awesome mystery of life; but the religion has to be recognized as what it always is- an imperfect 'map' or 'connection.'
"Every judgement teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an
unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty."
Frank Herbert, Dune 1965
Your questions are the hardest questions, the ones that have
tantalized humans since they were first conscious enough to ask them-
I can only say that if anyone claims to have "THE ANSWER,"
you'd best regard them with doubt-
I also suspect that the answers are hidden around us, in the
world of nature- if only we could see them...
I hope I've been some help
Thanks
Randal
Subject:
Bible Contradictions Argument
Date:
Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:07:14 -0500
From:
"Mike Murphree"
One of your arguments against the Bible being the actual Divine oracles of God seems to be that if they were really God's words they would not be open to ambiguity. That is, they would be so perfectly clear they could not be misinterpreted or misunderstood irrespective of context, linguistic complexities, or anything else.
The simple answer to this is that God is not required to work this way. Why do you think He would have to be? Do you see a contradiction between what He reveals about Himself in Scripture with the possibility of His being misinterpreted or misunderstood by humans? If so, upon what do you base it?
By the way, you have a very nicely done Web site.
Mike
mikem777@worldnet.att.net
Thanks, Mike.
Your 'simple' answer is a bit confusing. What HE reveals about HIMself and the 'possibility of misinterpretation' are such widely differing concepts it's difficult to how they could contradict OR agree.
That the Deity shouldn't be constrained by human criteria is a point well taken. With that in mind, it is possible to hear God's voice in a waterfall, or the wind, if only we can decode it.
Subject:
Problem of evil
Date:
Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:18:08 -0500
From:
jlaborde
Organization:
Rutgers University
jlaborde wrote:
I enjoyed reading your page. You know I have always questioned the existence of god. I was labeled as a troublemker, and people were always trying to convert me into being catholic. I always felt that I was alone in my struggle in finding the truth, I do not feel that no more. I was wondering if you could email me any information concerning the problem of evil. I am a college student at Rutgers University, NJ. I am writing a paper on the problem of evil. I feel that this line of arguing is the best method for shutting down the existence of a god. Well if you have any information you can email to me at ***********
Thank you
Joseph Anthony Laborde
Class 00'
Hello Joseph-
'Evil' is a Concept, or an idea. (Same as 'Good' or 'God') Humans put value judgements on the whims of nature, and call them 'evil' - but they are evil only from the humans' point of view.
When humans are cruel or mean or hateful is the only thing that could properly be called 'Evil' and again, it is a human construction.
Good luck with your paper-
thanks
RandL
Subject:
Hello my friend. . .
Date:
Wed, 03 Dec 1997 00:13:30 PST
From:
Enoch Pritchard
Hello RandL
I was just recently at your home page and several things went off in my heart. Some of which I will share and some of which I won't. First of all I wanted to ask you a question. If a man walks down the road and sees a mountain in the west, but says in his heart, there is no mountain there, does the mountain cease to exist? Of course not right? Just because you don't believe the Bible to be true does mean that it isn't. If you do not believe in God, that also doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. He is very real, and unfortunately, you will be called to be accountable in your response to what he has done to bring you back to himself. He dearly loves you, and sent his word as a love letter to you. Anyway, feel free to mail me back if you like.
In His Grip,
Enoch.
Remeber, Jesus loves you.
Dear Enoch-
Ever heard of the "Emporor's New Clothes?"
If you are standing at the beach, looking out at the ocean, and someone (or a crowd) walks up and insists that you are looking at a mountain, do you see a mountain?
Now Zen:
"First, there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is-"
(Basho)
From Ben Carter, Jan 31, 1998:
It seems you've spent a lot of time and thought in your web page; you seem to have a well-though-out argument for the non-existance of God.
I do not argue for the "non-existence of God." I argue for the non-existence of Church Authority.
I just thought I'd bring up a few points for you to think about to either strengthen your page, or give your visitors something to think about when they see the E-mails about the page. Much of this comes from my college philosophy class, where he have studied both logical fallacies and religion in philosophy, so hopefully this will be of benefit to you.
1) Have you ever heard of the "ad hominem" fallacy? It means that instead of arguing a point, a person turns to insults his or her opponent. Now even though you do argue a point here, you seem to spend much of the page simply saying things like "We have met the enemy and they is illiterate," "Arguing with a Biblical zealot is like engaging in a battle of wits against an unarmed opponent," and "creationism = cretinism." If you could tell me what saying things like this has to do with proving a point, I'd like to know.
The three quips you mention do not equal "much of the page(s)." They are included for their "linguistic historicism" as much as anything else. Three sentences constitute a tiny fraction of the volume of text in these pages. And showing a definition from a dictionary is no less than a public service. Ironically, "ad hominem" is Latin, and was probably used by Spanish Inquisitors in their efforts to prove a point with their victims.
2) Have you ever heard of the "straw man" fallacy. It means that to argue against a certain point, you use the weakest part of an argument and prove it wrong. For example, you seem to imply that all Christians are out to take away your fun and freedoms and we're going to push our beliefs on you and torture you if you don't believe. Now, personally, I have never tortured a non-Christian; I have never "pushed" my beliefs on anyone, though I have shared them. No one must believe what they don't want to.
Modern Fundamentalists do not have the Inquisition
or Witch Trials to propagate their beliefs. These days, they
are resorting to politics. Perhaps you personally are NOT behind these
incursions, and I wish you all the best. But for the Ken Tebedos,
Will Perkins, Randall Terrys, and Saddam Husseins of the world,
resistance is imperative.
The "straw man" fallacy - there's a good one. The arguments against
Christianity and Fundamentalism are legion, and in these pages are
drawn from a huge variety of sources. As arguments go, they're pretty good.
On the other hand, arguments for the Christian mythology, proselytizing, and 'creationism' are
as "straw" as straw gets.
3) I get the impression that many of your Biblical "inaccuracies" were not well throught through. I won't do it now, but I believe I could come up with at least a reasonable explanation of almost all of the contradictions you came up with. And now you're thinking "OK, here's another evil, fundamentalist zealot Bible-banger who's going to twist his beliefs so they fit my argument." No. I think I can give a truly logical explanation. The reason I'm not doing it now is because I know you will post it on your page and dismiss it with a Ned Flanders reference or something, wasting both your and my time reading and writing this message. If you are interested in my explanations (which I think you ought to be if you have any faith in your argument), E-mail me and I'll share them.
No thanks, I have pages and pages from people trying to explain why 42 is 23 or whatever. Again: Pointing out contradictions is just showing the weak editing and inconsistencies of a document or documents. Pointing out contradictions shows the inherent imperfection in the work. (And thus its less than perfect origin).
Sorry if I've exasperated you with my "fanatical raving" or whatever you'd like to call it... I figure that if you want to strengthen your page, why not argue a little instead of posting messages that are either weak and easy to shut down or messages that agree with your ideas. Bias is never a convincing argument.
If, as you say, "bias is never a convincing argument," doesn't that disprove everyone with a Christian bias? After all, bias works both ways, and if a person is to have any point of view at all, they have to have some sort of bias.
-Ben Carter May the LORD be with you.
Thanks. And may the FORCE be with you! Live long and prosper.(I'm not being sarcastic)
3-1-98
Hi,
Just wanted to say I enjoyed your site immensely.
Having recently begun exploring my relationship with God/the force of Good/Mother Nature, I was keen to read some critiques of fundamentalist dogma. Your site kept me busy for hours.
You cannot find Christ/God/Good in a book written and endlessly translated by powerful men [and they were men] who sought to control ideology through theology. Rather, Christ/God/Good is found in the heart...in the spirit..in the essence of life itself. Every person's relationship with God is different because every heart is different. Over-organised religion (as opposed to fellowship) can only compromise that special relationship and keep us from discovering our individual truths.
Far be it from me to claim Jesus did not rise from the dead for our salvation, but whether true or not, the resurrection is also a wonderful metaphor for the power of God/Good/the spirit to guide us through life's difficulties, reevaluate our lives and learn to thrive in spirit.
I do not believe in attacking Christianity...but nor do I believe your site attacks Christianity itself. Rather, I hope it should prompt some fundamentalist sheep to explore their hearts and reject the mind-control power-trip of McChristianity.
Thank you
Iain Clacher
Brisbane, Australia
3-4-98
Thank-you for your comprehensive , thoughtful, de-bunking of the fundamentalist Right. As an ex-fundie, I appreciate your intelligent, calm, reasoning thought patterns--so different from what I was brought up with! I've just about finished a book called "Stealing Jesus--How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity" by Bruce Bawer. It is very illuminating reading. He also comments on the Scopes Trial. Thanks for putting that section in; it was very interesting reading about W. J. Bryan's vast knowledge of science and culture!
Brian Quiring
Calgary, Alberta
Thank you kindly! I'll seek out the book you suggest.
January 20, 1998
RandL:
You most certainly have done your homework. Thank God there are still people out there with open minds. Keep up the good work.
Angela
from: Gord & Brenda February 10, 1998
I loved the page! Horribly intersting. Only one question though, (to ALL christians)-Prove to me that your god and jesus are real! (without telling me to read the bible,or the "your going to hell anyway,so why should I tell you?" excuse).
My personal thoughts are that god and jesus were created by men to control men.
truly your NON-believer
Will
February 11, 1998
Hello. This is not a verse/chapter correction, or anything like that, but rather a comment. If you don't want to read it, don't, but here it is: --------------------
I believe in the Bible, but I also believe in evolution. Literalists say that is impossible. I disagree. The Bible is a somewhat accurate account of God's ways, but it can't be taken literally. It is to be interpreted. Just like the Pope recently said. Those who say that only creation happened are wrong. Did creation happen? Yes, it did. It only took place over a period a few billion years. The bible states that the Earth was there before creation, however. I think that the so called "big bang" explains what happens before Genesis, and that the 7-day creation and 5-billion year evolution are one and the same. -------------------
Do you know what would really get some hits on you page? Put up a message board: evolution vs. creation. Thanks for your time.
James, a high school student
James- thanks for your letter. As you can see by the long delay in my response, time is tight.....
For a nice explanation of 'creation' in a scientific sense, look at Lyall Watson's LIFETIDE
That kind of a message board would be off the dial in NO TIME- and it would amount to a full time job. (Your idea has crossed my mind before) but, anyway, since there really ISN'T a debate between creation and evolution, such a page would be catering to those who believe there is..... Thanks Again....R
February 25, 1998
Thank you for pulling together a brief history of the beliefs of the inspired and inspiring men who created the United States. We must ever be on our guard, even, it appears, against enemies from within our own communities. I have argued for years in favor of the separation of church and state, but every Christmas brings new abuse. Don't these fools realize that the Constitution that protects the logical and the cynical also protects their dogma?! To weaken it weakens them, but they can't see past their collection plates. I live near Hillsboro, IL. On the old court house is a neon sign that says, "The World Needs God." A few years ago it finally came under attack. There can be no sane argument for such a sign hanging on a government building, but that never stops the zealots, does it? Signs of support sprang up everywhere. Every business hoped to capitalize on the fervor. My favorite was at a little flower stand. It read, "The world needs God . . . hostas, lillies, squash." It wasn't specific about the order of importance. That sign was just blocks from the courthouse & only blocks from my other favorite sign in Hillsboro: "Parking for Johns Only."
Sincerely,
Elmer L. Best
March 5, 1998
If one wished to place an inordinate amount of focus on one small group of Words, why couldn't it have been these?
I sense the outrage of Origen and Yeshua himself in your words. And Prana guiding your rage. Hard to be non-insulting I am sure, in the face of ignorance pronouncing itself King. None the less, you may want to take care when remonstrating the ignorant lest they find your indignance further excuse to differ...
(I admit, however, that I did chuckle when I read, "we have met the enemy and they is illiterate".)
It is also good to point, once your clear arguments against fundamentalism are made, to places where one can research more enlightened Spiritual thought. I am not saying that they are not present on your site, just that I have spent a good two hours here and not found many yet. I will continue to investigate. After all, knowledge is power.
May Spirit continue to speak through you. I encourage the pursuit of extincting ignorance.
Sincerely,
Pamela
Pamela
Thanks for your beautiful, sensible letter. The spiritual offerings in the STP domain are subtle and have to be sought out. May I suggest Dreams and the Morphogenetic Field, or the Magic Pages, or the Dorje and Prayer Wheels. There's also the Kahlil Gibran, and external links on the Links Page.
Peace to You
March 11, 1998
Your page is interesting and well done. An observation on the number 666: a documentary exploring the Book of Revelations proposed that in early times numbers represented letters, and that the number 666 represented the name of Niro Cesear, one of the most brutal early prosecutors of early Christians. It was argued that Revelations was written at a time when Christianity was legal in Rome, but Christians were still required by law to pray to Roman gods...thus the author(s) of Revelations were looking to install fear in early Christians that Niro could rise from the dead to persecute them once more.
M. Worden
From: Bert Miller
Back in the early 50's, as a U.S. Foreign Service officer I lived in Salonika, Greece. It's a Pauline city, the Thessalonians of the New Testament, to which St. Paul addressed two epistles, the first of which was the very first writing about the Jesus cult. (It wasn't called "Christianity" until somewhere around 150 AD in Antioch.) As part of my job I was responsible for the "care and feeding" of a Fulbright scholar assigned to the area by the Library of Congress. He happened to be one of the country's, if not the world's, leading authorities on historical Christianity.
To make a long story short, we decided one evening -- with our wives' permission -- to follow in the footsteps of Paul: from Tarsus where he was born, to the Street Called Straight in Damascus, to Ephesus, Phillippi, Thessalonika, Corinth, and all the other places in the life of this man. I developed a life-long interest in Paul, in early Christianity, and have become for years a voracious reader of early Christian history.(Bibliography on request.)
What have I learned in 40 years of study, and what do I believe?
Jesus did not set out to found a new religion, but rather to reform Judaism.
He was viewed as a military leader by a populace that was under Roman domination and before that under Persian and Babylonian domination. (Palm Sunday traces its origin to the practice of spreading palms in the path of the returning victorious military leader .)
His early followers, the so-called church fathers, did not want to extend his teachings to the uncircumsized, the gentiles. It was Paul who fought with them over this and became the apostle to the gentiles.
Paul, in a very real sense, was the inventor of Christianity. Without his efforts, it would be a minor Jewish sect today.
The Christ of faith and the Jesus of history are two different people. I'll take the latter, which does not mean I deny the message of the former. I simply refuse to accept all the hocus-pocus (derivation of the term: hoc est corpus=this is the body) hung on the teachings of this simple Galilean by those first and second century theologians who were more interested in adapting paganistic rituals than in staying true to his message.
An Eastern Orthodox monk once told me that religion was like a nail: the harder you hit it, the deeper it goes. The Christian church's nail was hammered in on the bias, has been repeatly bent by the poorly aimed blows of fundamentalism, and has split the wood with which Paul would have erected a great faith based on Jesus message: this commandment I also give you. Love one another. The irony is that no religion has killed more people in the name of its messiah than Christianity.
Bert:
Thanks for your great letter. More evidence in behalf of the truth. He refers partly to the STP Paul of Tarsus page.
Thanks again.
March 26, 1998
I found you purely by accident several days ago, and have revisited your site and links every day since. You express ideas to make everyone reflect on their beliefs, whether they are Athiest (like me), Christian, or Jewish. I just wish that Christians would take your criticisms and ideas to heart and take a long look at the destructiveness and hatefulness of all religions, and most specifically, Christianity. I have rejected Christianity for nearly 30 years, and my feelings get stronger each and every day.
Finding your site and those like yours have helped me to do research and confirm that there ARE others out there! Our viewpoints are not widely published in materials found in a hometown library! It's difficult living in a small, mainly Christian town, and living within a Christian family (husband, in-laws). I have always been interested in the Inquisitions and wars "in the name of the Lord," and you have enlightened me as to their horror and atrocities.
The Christians I know, though not Catholic, choose to ignore their past and would say, "that was then, this is now." Bull! Thank you for your hard work! Keep it up.
Adrienne
April 7, 1998
I just discovered your site today and found it intriguing. I appreciate your perspective-- rationalist, iconoclastic, and progressive. As someone with left of center politics I'm always pleased to encounter a progressive perspective that is NOT informed by Parisian/academic intellectual fashion, i.e. deconstruction, "discourse theory," etc. As far as I'm concerned "PC" is a form of liberal sentimentality, and not genuine leftism, which focuses on economic and political reform. "Pomo" pseudoradicals tend to focus primarily on language and linguistic practices as the basis of social structure and reality; hence, the obsession with policing people's language and the misguided notion that changing language and nomenclature is essential to changing social and political realities.
I especially appreciate your critiques of Christianity. You might add to your site some of the ideas of David Hume and Bertrand Russell, two of Christianity's most persuasive critics. In a recent issue of The Nation, Gore Vidal refers to "Judaism and its two dreary spinoffs, Christianity and Islam" as the source of much racist oppression since practitioners of these faiths have few qualms about terrorizing and oppressing those "lesser breeds" who are "infidels." Organized religion and its adherents have a hell of a lot to answer for, and it's always a delight (for me) to see someone take believers to task.
I find really scary the responses you've received from admirers of Pat Buchanan, a fascist in the classical mode (phony populism and anti-corporate grandstanding, as well as xenophobic and thoroughly bigoted). Fortunately the idiocy of these characters is so obvious that anyone with a functioning brain should be able to rebut it.
GiorgioD
Giorgio:
Thanks for your letter - nice at this end to see people thinking.... Time allowing, Bertrand Russell and David Hume will be excerpted here...
By the way, Giorgio is referring to the Deconstructionism Page and the Pat Buchanan Page. A new, scary letter from a Pat supporter is Here.
Thanks again.
April 11, 1998
Dear Friend,
I have been reading through your information and I love it. I am definitely a Christian and yet I'm open to the perplexities that you present. Still, I see the Bible as an important explanation of the overall dilemma of mankind. My favorite quote is the one you posted by Frank Herbert from Dune.
My favorite Christian author is Oswald Chambers. He writes: "Faith in God is a terrific venture in the dark. We have to believe that God is love in spite of all that contradicts it. Every soul represents some kind of battlefield. The great point for the Christian is to remain perfectly confident in God."
I feel the alternative is best expressed by T.S. Eliot : I had far rather walk, as I do, in daily terror of eternity, than feel that this was only a children's game in which all the contestants would get equally worthless prizes."
Now, I don't exactly walk in terror of eternity, in fact I'm quite looking forward to the determination of whether I was correct in my belief or not. I also do not wish for the demise of those who have not understood - what is incomprehensible for me is if the whole of life is meaningless past this brief moment we occupy.
Regards,
Susan Lazore
April 11,1998
Thanks for your Brilliant website! If I thought there were a "God" I would ask him to bless you.
In my 50 years on this earth I have learned one thing for certain - There are only two kinds of people in any religion, the hypocrites who lead
....And the fools who follow.
Real Truth survives unscathed even the most critical examination.
Faith is a Prison of Ignorance.
You are enabling the enlightenment of those who thirst for knowlege.
I know of no higher service to our fellow Humanoids.
Ed Talbot
April 26, 1998
In short...I liked the site
The contradictions of the bible consume me. I find it comforting that the word of God is flawed......just as I am.
Sean & Daphne
April 27, 1998
Yes, there are some contradictions in the Bible but by going into a
different book such as:
Is God good or evil?
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.
(Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)
The Psalms were written by people and not only that these are hundreds
of years apart. All the Way Alive
And by the way, EVIL is in the world because GOD was GOOD enough to give
us FREE WILL.
It is also written, "THOU SHALT NOT PUT YOUR LORD GOD TO THE TEST".
And if you're an athiest, I assume you believe in the Big Bang Theory.
What put that superdense particle their in the first place?
Lifetide by Lyall Watson
The bible uses SYMBOLISM. That's why you're NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE IT
LITERALLY. Metaphor
It seems perhaps you missed some of my other pages.
To make it easier, I linked to appropriate answers in your letter.
Thanks!
April 29, 1998
Your website kicks ass! The Xtian e-mail reponse page had me on the floor laughing. Some of the crap people wrote is identical to the tirades I get from my family for leaving the church.
Keep up the good work and keep pushing those buttons!
Cheers,
-Eric
April 4, 1998
thank you for having the courage (and the technical ability) to put up this page. what a "god"send it is. in order to keep myself from babbling, i will make this short and sweet:
1) have you noticed the new bumper stickers xians have? the darwin 'fish' being swallowed by the jesus fish, which has the word "truth" in it?
2) i saw a xian wearng a t-shirt this past week (middle aged mom with two little ones) : "turn or burn" and then the verse where it says there is no name under heaven by which man may be saved....
3) i used to be xian. then when i was in my 20's (i am 31 now) and was at a bible study i began to look up the verses in the gospels that "prophesy" Jesus' coming. When i read them in context i was shocked to notice that they were not talking about Jesus (or, in most cases, the future) at all. i began to read my n.t. more critically and found one contradiction after the other. i wrote them all in a spiral notebook and when i was done went to several pastors for help. it devastated me to see all these problems and i wanted answers. would it surprise you to know that they had none? none that were anything other than roundabout reasoning that they never would have accepted from anyone else, like a Mormon, anyway. I considered Judaism after that but found that the o.t. was as crazy as the n.t. ever read the book of joshua? and we wonder why the Israelis treat the Palestinians the way they do? Look at how they got the land the first time!
Your page is great!
Sincerely,
Jennifer Smith
May 5, 1998
Thanks so much for finally giving me some mud to fling back into the faces of the ranting,preaching, predjudiced hicks where i live. ( incidentally where same-sex marriges are illegal and the Indigo girls have been banned from my high school again!) I am very interested in the Scopes trial and the arguments on evolution being taught in public schools. Thanks again!
Emily
In regard to your contradictions about lying, the Bible is speaking of false prophets in the second, people who will subvert the word of God. I am truly sorry that you lack faith, but please read what it God is saying in I Thes. ch. 2 and realize that it is not encouraging lying, rather warning of it. If God is to be all-powerful than he has control over Satan who is the creator of all evil. I also want to let you know that those Christians who profess to better than everyone are by doing so subverting the word of God. You and I are equal. I believe strongly in God, you don't but we both sin. In God's eyes we are equal in that sense. Granted I ask forgiveness, but there is nothing stopping you from doing the same. You have nothing to lose. Ask God to come into your life and pray. If He doesn't then you only have more proof to His non existence.
Thanks for listening,
In Christ's Love,
Steven R. Jones
Should we tell lies? Ex. 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.(Prov. 12:22; Rev. 21:8) 1 Kings 22:23 The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. (II Thess. 2:11; Josh. 2:4-6 with James 2:25)
May 8, 1998
Hopefully a site such as your will reduce the possibility of man afflicting suffering upon another man. It saddens me that this is a true part of mankind's dark history.
Sincerely,
Robert S. Travis
May 9, 1998
Because as true followers of GOD we ask that HIS will be done and not ours. GOD is supreme in all ways and i do not question anything HE says or does, because i have found by careful study and guidance of THE HOLY SPIRIT, that what
we could say at first glance might be thougt to be contradiction is not.
I will give you one example:
Thou shall not kill is a command of GOD.
GOD instructed sometimes that HIS followers were to kill some people.
It is very clear to me that i am not to kill anyone unless GOD by my being in HIS
presence instructs me to do so. We are told in Scriptures that GOD was with the
people of Israel. If you do not believe this then i can see how you can doubt.
It says in Scripture that GOD hates evil and HIS followers are to hate evil also.
No one can proove anything concerning belief, therefore i takes faith and anyone can make any statements which come to mind.
It says in Scripture that "without faith it is impossible to please GOD"
May 10, 1998
I would just like to say that your web page has to be the best that I have even seen.
I have been using a T3 permanent link for the past year and was beginning to believe that the net was full of rubbish but you page has shown me the light. I love the debunking of the Bible. I share a lot of views with you on that one - anybody with any intelligence should.
Thanks for providing me with entertainment for a couple of hours.
Douglas Graham.
May 19, 1998
Your opinions of Christianity struck me as very hateful. While I admit that Christ's name has been and will continue to be used for evil purposes, that is not what Christ preached. You seem to have extreme hate for Christians, that has been and will continue to be the worldly view. That view put Christ on the cross, and will put many Christians in peril until the end of time. You try to portray Christians as ignorant people, I would guess many are. However, I am currently a 2nd year law student, and have a number other graduate degrees, (not that degrees make you intelligent), but I know Judges, Law professors, CEO's of fortune 500 company's, and many more incredibly intelligent people who are devout fundamentalist Christians. If I were you I would try to become a little more informed before you spout such anger and hatred. You have every right to hate whoever you want, but try not to be so hypocritical, it takes away from your argument. Good luck on your endeavors, I must say your web page has given me food for thought, but also a sadness for your hatred of the one true God, Jesus Christ.
God Bless,
Bradford Tiernan (Fundamentalist Christian)
Hate comes in many forms. Check out this Cesspool of Christian Ignorance and Viciousness. As for all of your judges and law professors, as many of them are agnostics, or Buddhists, or Deists. Since they all can't be right, how do you explain the ones that are not as confused as you are? I suggest you make a more thorough reading of these pages before you go off half-cocked.
On Joy and Sorrow ...On Religion ... On Self Knowledge
Letters about this site in general
The Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians
Mother Earth on the Chopping Block
Look into the eyes of the advertising demon!
Pat Buchanan: Pit Bull in Wolf's clothing
maximum email size 300 words - thanks